[Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire

[Kirk Bailey]

As has been mentioned, a good battery chemistry option for safety and
lifespan is LiFePO4.  Somewhat heavier than the Tesla chemistry, so
probably not an option for Gary's bike, but great for stationary
applications.

We've installed some of the packaged Blue Planet Energy systems that use
the Sony developed LiFePO4 cells and been very pleased.  They claim 8000
cycles at 100% discharge and an estimated lifespan of more than 20 years...

Kirk Bailey
bailey at peak.org

On Saturday, November 24, 2018, <gburket at peak.org> wrote:

> Hi Michael,
>
> Thank you for the info on the LTO batteries. Unfortunately, the LTOs have
> only ~1/3 the energy density of the Tesla and other comparable batteries.
> For the long range(200-250 miles) touring motorcycle I'm designing and
> building, the weight of the LTO batteries needed would be impractical. As
> it is, the weight of the Tesla batteries needed for this kind of range as I
> calculate it, would be ~350lbs. Also, with the Tesla modules, it would be
> really be pushing the design limits volume and weight distribution wise.
>
> These batteries, with their great calendar and cycle lives, do look like
> they would be excellent for stationary storage systems.
>
> Thank you again, Glenn
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Michael Jeffers" <michael.toye.jeffers at gmail.com>
> *To: *"Glenn Burket" <gburket at peak.org>
> *Cc: *"Corvallis EV CLub" <caevlist at caevclub.org>
> *Sent: *Friday, November 23, 2018 7:12:14 PM
> *Subject: *Fwd: [Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire
>
> ...also, a couple more links
> http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=23272
> https://altairnano.com/products/70-amp-hour-cell/
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
> Sent from myPhone
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From:* Michael Jeffers <michael.toye.jeffers at gmail.com>
> *Date:* November 23, 2018 at 7:00:30 PM PST
> *To:* gburket at peak.org
> *Subject:* *Re: [Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire*
>
> Hey Glenn,
> I’m rather new to the community, but I feel I may have some input on the
> subject. Recently I stumbled across Lithium Titanate Oxide cells (LTO’s).
> Now they don’t have the same power density and nominal voltage as many
> other commonly used cells, but I could see them being very beneficial if
> utilized correctly.
> From my understanding they are rather safe compared to other Li-ion
> chemistries and their charging abilities are like nothing I’ve seen. Some
> are able to charge at the same rate they can discharge, while maintaining a
> lifespan that exceeds other common chemistries. I could see this being
> highly beneficial for not only quick charges, but being very efficient for
> regenerative braking. Possibly even eliminating the need for traditional
> friction-based braking mechanisms.
> The challenge I’m running into however is finding a BMS that is up to the
> challenge.
>
> https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I
>
> https://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-Tech/
> http://www.kokpower.com/lithium-titanate-batteries-lto_c11
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael
>
>
> Sent from myPhone
>
> On Nov 23, 2018, at 4:16 PM, gburket at peak.org wrote:
>
> Hai-Yue, If you know that safer batteries are coming, could you just wink
> or something?
>
> Glenn
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Hai-Yue Han" <haiyuehan at gmail.com>
> *To: *"Glenn Burket" <gburket at peak.org>
> *Cc: *"Corvallis EV CLub" <caevlist at caevclub.org>
> *Sent: *Friday, November 23, 2018 3:59:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire
>
> Yeah, it definitely looked like even the mechanical containment of the
> module was not there either; there are multiple layers of physical
> containment to prevent things like this regardless of BMS.
>
> Safety third! ;)
>
> Hai-Yue
>
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 3:08 PM <gburket at peak.org wrote:
>
>> Hi fellow EVers,
>>
>> Happy Thanksgiving and here's an early holiday gift for those of us
>> working or thinking of working with Tesla Battery modules:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q  Every time I see a new one
>> of these videos, I keep redesigning a stronger and stronger module
>> containment system. Whatever I come up with is definitely going to have to
>> involve some real-life destructive testing. Or, should I wait until safer,
>> higher energy density batteries come along? Granted, Richard and his
>> buddies didn't use a BMS or active cooling. However, the consequences of
>> this type of fire even though it might be remote when a BMS and active
>> cooling are used, are so dire it can't be ignored.
>>
>> Stay Safe, Glenn
>>
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