[Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire

[gburket at peak.org]

Hi Michael, 

Thank you for the info on the LTO batteries. Unfortunately, the LTOs have only ~1/3 the energy density of the Tesla and other comparable batteries. For the long range(200-250 miles) touring motorcycle I'm designing and building, the weight of the LTO batteries needed would be impractical. As it is, the weight of the Tesla batteries needed for this kind of range as I calculate it, would be ~350lbs. Also, with the Tesla modules, it would be really be pushing the design limits volume and weight distribution wise. 

These batteries, with their great calendar and cycle lives, do look like they would be excellent for stationary storage systems. 

Thank you again, Glenn 


From: "Michael Jeffers" <michael.toye.jeffers at gmail.com> 
To: "Glenn Burket" <gburket at peak.org> 
Cc: "Corvallis EV CLub" <caevlist at caevclub.org> 
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 7:12:14 PM 
Subject: Fwd: [Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire 

...also, a couple more links 
http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=23272 
https://altairnano.com/products/70-amp-hour-cell/ 

Regards, 

Michael 

Sent from myPhone 

Begin forwarded message: 




From: Michael Jeffers < michael.toye.jeffers at gmail.com > 
Date: November 23, 2018 at 7:00:30 PM PST 
To: gburket at peak.org 
Subject: Re: [Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire 




BQ_BEGIN

Hey Glenn, 
I’m rather new to the community, but I feel I may have some input on the subject. Recently I stumbled across Lithium Titanate Oxide cells (LTO’s). Now they don’t have the same power density and nominal voltage as many other commonly used cells, but I could see them being very beneficial if utilized correctly. 
>From my understanding they are rather safe compared to other Li-ion chemistries and their charging abilities are like nothing I’ve seen. Some are able to charge at the same rate they can discharge, while maintaining a lifespan that exceeds other common chemistries. I could see this being highly beneficial for not only quick charges, but being very efficient for regenerative braking. Possibly even eliminating the need for traditional friction-based braking mechanisms. 
The challenge I’m running into however is finding a BMS that is up to the challenge. 



https://youtu.be/eAUYbSDEy6I 


https://www.ev-power.eu/LTO-Tech/ 
http://www.kokpower.com/lithium-titanate-batteries-lto_c11 

Regards, 

Michael 


Sent from myPhone 

On Nov 23, 2018, at 4:16 PM, gburket at peak.org wrote: 


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Hai-Yue, If you know that safer batteries are coming, could you just wink or something? 

Glenn 



From: "Hai-Yue Han" < haiyuehan at gmail.com > 
To: "Glenn Burket" < gburket at peak.org > 
Cc: "Corvallis EV CLub" < caevlist at caevclub.org > 
Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 3:59:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [Caevlist] Tesla Module Fire 

Yeah, it definitely looked like even the mechanical containment of the module was not there either; there are multiple layers of physical containment to prevent things like this regardless of BMS. 

Safety third! ;) 

Hai-Yue 

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018, 3:08 PM < gburket at peak.org wrote: 

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Hi fellow EVers, 

Happy Thanksgiving and here's an early holiday gift for those of us working or thinking of working with Tesla Battery modules: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdDi1haA71Q Every time I see a new one of these videos, I keep redesigning a stronger and stronger module containment system. Whatever I come up with is definitely going to have to involve some real-life destructive testing. Or, should I wait until safer, higher energy density batteries come along? Granted, Richard and his buddies didn't use a BMS or active cooling. However, the consequences of this type of fire even though it might be remote when a BMS and active cooling are used, are so dire it can't be ignored. 

Stay Safe, Glenn 

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