[Caevlist] 2000 Corbin Sparrow

Tue Oct 17 09:32:35 PDT 2023

Stephen, 
my 2 cents worth. Looking at the layout in photos of the present battery location for the 13 Yellowtops, I think that to go to a Lithium based chemistry best plan would be lithium iron phosphate cells. Sitting on lithium ion cells without some sort of very secure container doesn't appeal to me. Lithium iron phosphate cells are intrinsically safe and don't suffer from thermal runaway at end of charge. You will need about 4 cells per yellowtop and then one additional cell per every 10 cells to get a roughly equivalent pack voltage to the 13 yellowtops. A good number is probably 56 cells. The charger will probably need to be reprogrammed for the new chemistry, taper current, and final off charge voltage. You will need a BMS as well, like an Orion 2 72 channel unit at about $1600. Off charge voltage for 56 cells of this type will be about 201vdc so all components powered by the traction pack and the charger will need to be checked for compatibility with this voltage. Dropping down to 52 ish cells might make all the difference in practicality of the conversion. The yellow tops are 55ah at 13.1vdc nominal for 720wh each or a full pack of 13 9366wh total. The CALB CA40 cells are physically short enough to fit vertically in the same space as the yellowtops. They are 40ah each at 3.2vdc or 128wh each. Thus for 56 of them the total energy will be about 7168wh somewhat less than the original pack, but much stiffer voltage curve during discharge. The CA100 cells are taller than the yellowtops so a horizontal stacking would probably be necessary. They come out to 320wh per cell, for a total of 17920wh for the pack. The 100ah cells are roughly $130 each in quantity, plus some shipping and handling for a box full. That would make the total cell cost about $7300. Beyond that, there is the cost of mechanical structures and integration. You can get an idea from this a rough idea of how much just the electrical update would be. Then there are the other maintenance items you mentioned to deal with. Makes buying a used Leaf look appealing cost wise. 

Paul 

From: "Stephen Hodges" <stephen at bosonhub.com> 
To: "Glenn Burket" <gburket at peak.org> 
Cc: "Corvallis EV CLub" <caevlist at caevclub.org> 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 3:07:07 PM 
Subject: Re: [Caevlist] 2000 Corbin Sparrow 

Hi all! 
Thanks for the input, I shared with others here that I am just doing a feasibility study for my friend who owns it - he would prefer to get it going for the purposes of short runs into town, going to a car show here and there, etc. Not for daily use! 

It's down in Central California and he can tow it somewhere if he has some ideas of numbers. I understand there are lots of options, he is trying to figure out cost/benefit at this point. 

Thanks again for all the input and if there are some general numbers anyone can share, I would appreciate it! 

Stephen 

Stephen Hodges 
Managing Director 

[ https://bosonhub.com/ | https://bosonhub.com ] 

On Mon, Oct 16, 2023 at 1:05 PM Glenn Burket < [ mailto:gburket at peak.org | gburket at peak.org ] > wrote: 

Hi Stephen, 

I have a general design, fabrication, and repair business with some EV experience and parts (new and used controllers, chargers, etc.) . If you would like some help with your project, please contact me. 

Re what Kirk is referring to for stability, at least one vehicle manufacturer added a thick lead plate to the bottom of their EV to restore stability when they switched from LA to lithium batteries. 

These days, you can pick up a used Leaf, after rebates, for ~$2K (is this still correct?). You would have a much safer and more practical vehicle than the Sparrow. Maybe you just want a unique vehicle to blast around town and short distances. You would certainly get a lot more attention! 

Glenn 

From: "Kirk Swaney, SHIFT Electric Vehicles LLC" <kirk at SHIFTev.com> 
To: "Stephen Hodges" < [ mailto:stephen at bosonhub.com | stephen at bosonhub.com ] >, "Corvallis EV CLub" < [ mailto:caevlist at caevclub.org | caevlist at caevclub.org ] > 
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2023 7:58:27 AM 
Subject: Re: [Caevlist] 2000 Corbin Sparrow 

Hi Stephen, 

Sounds fun. Most sparrows used a simple series-wound brushed dc motor and Curtis 1209 controller. There are many on evAlbum.com. Perhaps one thats been converted to lithium by someone who would share the e perience with you? 

Optima yellow or blue group 34 will cost more than lithium. Keep in mind that with conversion of batteries to lithium comes conversion or replacement of the charger too, and the addition of a BMS + integration time. A good learning project. 

The lead weight added stability, so keep CG in mind with lithium placement. Especially since it's on 3 wheels. I rolled an electric 3 wheeler in 1996 and it took the joy right out of the ride lol. 

Kirk 

-------- Original message -------- 
From: Stephen Hodges < [ mailto:stephen at bosonhub.com | stephen at bosonhub.com ] > 
Date: 10/15/23 10:10 PM (GMT-08:00) 
To: Corvallis EV CLub < [ mailto:caevlist at caevclub.org | caevlist at caevclub.org ] > 
Subject: [Caevlist] 2000 Corbin Sparrow 

Hi all 

A friend of mine has a Corbin Sparrow and we are considering a restoration for my YouTube channel. However, we’re not quite sure where to start. Regardless, we want the car back on the road. Any input would be helpful, especially on the cost of batteries. 

Condition: (from the owner) 

“Does TheBadIdeasGarage want to work on then do a review of my 2000 Corbin Sparrow? It needs all batteries replaced. 13 optima yellow top 34’s. Also needs Brake work since it’s not need driven for at least 3 years. And who knows what else.” 

We certainly do not have the capabilities to do major work, however, he is perspectively interested to see what it would be cost wise to upgrade to lithium batteries. Apparently, there are folks who have done this around the country. I thought I would start with our group First, I know ShiftEV is obviously a part of it. He is trying to do a cost benefit analysis before replacing the batteries with what is there. 

I have an image attached, not sure if that is going to come through. 

Thanks! 

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